Saturday, December 08, 2007

Moderate or Slippery Sliding Southern Baptists?

Christianity is all about sharing the Good News of salvation through Jesus our Savior and about sharing God’s love for all. Most Christians are a loving people who are slow to judge and quick to forgive. These very qualities often make hard decisions even more difficult.

Today the growing voices of secular humanism are telling Christians that homosexuality is just another lifestyle choice. In many Christian denominations today, homosexual unions have achieved parity with heterosexual marriage.

Should over two thousand years of Christian teaching and tradition be abandoned because of pressure from the secular left? Has the Bible been reduced to nothing more than a quaint historical recipe book filled with arduous instructions and impossible to find ingredients? Are the Ten Commandments really nothing more than ten little suggestions?

We have written several articles about the gradual takeover of many Christian denominations by the far left. This began decades ago within the mainline Christian denominations. Inroads are now being made by the Christian left with Evangelicals and even within more “conservative” churches.

If we have eyes to see it is apparent that we are living in times where it is no longer easy to be a Christian. The strength of our faith will be determined by God’s grace and our individual abilities to withstand the derision and false charges that will be heaped upon us as Christians. Those who are swayed by the world, by money, by power, and by the so-called “authority” of the leftist media, will fall.

Broadway Baptist Church of Fort Worth, Texas is debating whether their church directory should include gay couples, or gay people individually but not as couples, or whether to omit all individual and family photos.

Here’s an excerpt from the Dallas Morning News article “Fort Worth's Broadway Baptist wrestling with listing gay members in directory

“ . . . Members were to vote Sunday after morning worship. But in a clear indication that they are divided over how accepting to be of homosexuality, they met for an hour and then postponed any decision until deacons make a recommendation on Feb. 24.

"We will continue to discuss this issue together as a church family," Kathy Madeja, chair of the deacons, said in a prepared statement. "We do not want to rush to make a decision, but rather to continue to listen to each other and for God's leading for our church." . . .

Homosexuality continues to be a vexing issue in American Christianity, with the Episcopal Church, United Methodist Church, Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), and other denominations facing internal conflicts over how accepting to be, particularly in regard to gay clergy.

The conservative Southern Baptist Convention recently began a program to reach out to gay people. But the program seeks to get them to change from what the SBC considers to be a sinful lifestyle.

Still, some Baptist churches welcome gay people as they are. One is Myers Park Baptist of Charlotte, N.C., which left the SBC years ago but continued to be affiliated with the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina.

When the state convention decided that its churches must refuse to "affirm, approve, endorse, promote, support or bless homosexual behavior," Myers Park turned itself in as not following such a policy. Last month, amid much publicity, state convention "messengers" voted to expel the church. . .”

Here’s a link to the Broadway Baptist (E-mail) Staff Directory. Include Broadway Baptist in your prayers and share your thoughts. You never know, God could be answering their prayers through your own impulse to respond. They will make a final decision on February 24th, 2008.

Note: Traditionally Christianity has always viewed the ACT of homosexuality as immoral. Notice that the emphasis is on the word “ACT” not the proclivity. Traditionally, Christianity does not condemn homosexuals for being homosexual but does condemn homosexual acts. Therefore, even in very conservative Christian denominations it is possible to be a homosexual in good standing if one does not engage in homosexual acts. In other words, if a homosexual chooses to remain celibate, he or she would be a traditional Christian in good standing.

The following articles will provide more details concerning the attempts by the Christian Left to takeover Christianity. These articles and many related member articles can be found in the sidebar at Christians Against Leftist Heresy.

Why America Must Define Religion
Obama’s Marxist Liberation Theology Church
Keeping Racism Alive by Eradicating White Privilege
United Nations Entrenched Within Most Christian Denominations
National Council of Churches Supports the U.N.
The Battle for American Unity
Is Your Church a Secret Sanctuary? Pledging Your Moral Stand for Immigrants Rights

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Trackposted to Rosemary's Thoughts, Right Truth, Adam's Blog, The World According to Carl, Shadowscope, The Pink Flamingo, Leaning Straight Up, Adeline and Hazel, and The Yankee Sailor, thanks to Linkfest Haven Deluxe.


  1. if homosexuality is a sin, then how does it come against loving your neighbor as yourself, the summation of all the law.

    explain how the words of the verses of scripture that refer to same sex relations condemn homosexuality?

    homosexuality being human bonding between those of the same sex motivated by mutual, love, attraction, devotion, respect,and trust, for a shared committed life together.

  2. The point of the article is that over 2000 years of Biblical teaching and Christian tradition have condemned homosexual acts – not homosexuals. Now, two of the marks of Christian authority, the Bible and Tradition, have been overturned in so-called “conservative” churches. This has happened not by theological consensus, but by caving into the pressure brought by secular humanism. You can find on the internet ample theological discourses regarding homosexuality both pro and con.

  3. the point is scriptural interpretation is the law, evertytime you use it for regulation, whether for homosexuality or no, you ar being led by the law and you are putting yourself and others under the law. yet you know in christ we are no longer under the law but grace, and we are led by the and serve ofthe spirit. as a christian you say you want to be like christ, but even christ said " those who listen to my words but dont do them i do not judge, because i came into the world to save it"

    as christians does not scripture say we are to lead with fellowship.........fellowship to all. otherwise how can we walking in the light. if we are not walking in the light how can our witness be credible, without fellowship in christ how can we be giving a 1john1 witness. that" which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life."

  4. feetxxxl. You make a very good point. Yes Christians are led to fellowship with all. However, it would appear that you want NO laws at all. Jesus sat with sinners, prostitutes and the like, but he also said “Go and sin no more.” Without the Bible and the Ten Commandments who would know what is or is not sin? Again, you wish to make Theological argumentation here. The point of the article is clear to most Christians.

  5. This comes down to the "luke-warming" of Christianity. You are speaking specifically about the Southern Baptists, I'm a life-long member of that denomination. I can attest that there has been a watering down of the faith/beliefs in SOME churches.

    Southern Baptists are different from Methodists, Episcopalians, Lutherans, etc., in that individual Churches have the right to decide for their own congregations what their foundational beliefs are. In the other denominations I mentioned, there is a central Bishop or governing body that makes up the rules and passes them down for all churches to abide by.

    I can remember being a member of a small country Southern Baptist Church years ago. We had a young woman come forward, wanting to accept Christ as her Lord and Savior and join the church.

    She was living with a man who did drugs, etc., not married. Our pastor told her that if she truly accepted Christ, she would not stay in that sinful situation. (I've got to tell you, I was surprised at this.)

    She came back the next week, she had moved out, told the guy the relationship was ended, and she wanted to live a life Christ would be proud of. That took guts on the part of the pastor, but the woman's conversion was real and she acted upon it.

    If we truly believe that homosexuality is wrong in God's eyes, then we have to act as the pastor above did. People can accept the faith AS PRESENTED or they can go elsewhere.

    Be either HOT or COLD, but not LUKEWARM.

    There are solid teachings in the Bible and folks can either accept or reject, it's their choice.

    Right Truth

  6. the law is now for conscious of loving......loving your neighbor as yourself. in following the three commandments of loving, we automatically fulfill the law, the fulfillment of which is love.

    according to the law, david did not sin until he had intercourse with bathsheba, but in christ david sinned the moment he lusted after his neighbors wife. had he loved his neighbor, had he loved himself, had he loved his neighbor as he loved him himself, having loved himself, he would never have been given over to lusting.

    luke 6:24 one cannnot serve to opposing spirits(masters) you will love one and despise the other. the point is you cannot serve two opposing spirits equally.

    even though i believe that homosexuality is not a sin , i cannot , go to my brothers in christ who disagree and say you are not in christ, because you do not see as i see. that would be putting them under regulation......under the law. all i can say is how are you loving your neighbor as yourself by denying fellowship to your brother's in christ who happen to be gay.......or even homosexuals in general. where is your one 1john1 witness in fellowship, a witness of walking in the light?

    what is fellowship? romans 12: 9Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. 10Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. 11Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. 12Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. 13Share with God's people who are in need. Practice hospitality.

    lest we forget all the discernments that paul directs us, is always in fellowship.

  7. Thank you, Debbie, for sharing your knowledge of the Baptist church with us all. You are exactly correct. It’s all about the watering down of faith and beliefs, which now has even reached into some Baptist churches. I admire the small country Southern Baptist pastor you remember from when you were a young girl. In a small town, where everyone knows one another, how much more difficult it must have been to tell that girl, “Go and sin no more.” Imagine the pressure. Only a man truly of God could have done the right thing.

    In a world where all acts and beliefs are morally equivalent, where there is no moral authority, and there are no laws nor consequences so no act could ever be deemed sinful , that’s a world that has banished God. Many of our churches are dangerously close to becoming that world of counterfeit Christians.

  8. Dear feetxxl (by the way I love that name), I think you are very sincere and might be overlooking the point that Debbie made. Love is not always about accepting everything another does – good or bad. Love is often taking the harder path and moving our fellow Christians towards correction, as did Debbie’s pastor with the young woman.

    Jesus’ commandments concerning love did fulfill the law but they did not end the law. I think that this is where you have misunderstood. Jesus did not rescind the law. He did not do away with the Ten Commandments. Far from it! It is only by attempting to live within God’s law and by grace that one can truly understand what it really means to love. Love is not easy. It is often hard. Ask any parent who had had to discipline a child.

    Again you say that we cannot serve two masters by implying that traditional Christianity hates homosexuals. That, of course, is not true. Some misguided Christians may hate, but that is not the traditional teaching of Christianity. Please re-read the Note in the above article.

    I like very much what you wrote at the end of your comment in the last paragraph.

  9. I wonder why Baptists don't cast out those members that are remarried or divorced? They are generally welcomed into the fold as they are and are not required to be celibate. I guess that's one reason why many people believe that Baptists are primarily concerned with excluding Gay people. Do y'all love the sin of adultery? Then why the disperate treatment? I guess its too much to ask y'all not to use moral relatism to excuse straight adultery. Seriously, why not throw out all straight divorced/remarried people that are not celibate?

  10. my understanding is not whether one believes in something, but whether, is what is believed, of christ.

    the essence of belief about regulation is about the concept of i. i believe in this, i dont believe in that.

    but fellowship in christ is christ centered.

    in fellowship, all parties trust that the holy spirit, the source of all truth, will show all, united in christ, what is needed to be seen.

    but,again its in fellowship.

    historically, homosexuals were rejected by society, including the church, abandoned by friends and family, told by believers they would go to hell if they succombed to feelings of wanting to be bonded to someone of the same sex, and subjected to possible incarceration, assault, and even murder. all done, in the BELIEF that their way, was the correct way to deny fellowship.


    im saying that there is no reason in christ to deny fellowship? that in christ fellowship is extended automatically.

    to say someone has to DO something in their life before can truly be a believer in christ. is not supported by scripture.

    ephesians 2;8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast.

    romans 10:8But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,"[a] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

    in confessing sin in ones life, accepting christ as ones savior, is not the same thing as demanding confession of a particular sin, to be able to be accepted as a believer in christ.

    how is that possible when even as believers,we have sin in our lives? isnt that the reason for the crucifixion and why we are under grace, and not the law?

    but it is true. a congregation can create any regulation, demanding compliance before there can be any fellowship.........either for their own identity or for what is believed is their own piety. but to assume that this is of christ because the congregation in mass believes it, is without truth.

  11. By the way, your posting on the other site ( - I assume this is you as well) applauding Huckabee's former belief that AIDS sufferes should be segregated (in camps perhaps?) and that the federal government did way too much to help alliviate the suffering and deaths of those suffering from HIV/AIDS speaks volumes towards your true beliefs on 'hating the sin, loving the sinner'. I'm appalled. I think most Christians would be too. Well Fred Phelps probably wouldn't.

  12. I have to apologize for something..when I said that it was Huckabee's former belief that Texas Fred was apparently applauding I jumped the gun. Huckabee told Fox News today that he "I don't run from it..I don't recant it". So it apparently is Huckabee's current belief. That is a quite illuminating statement from a Baptist minister. I'm not surprised that some Baptists and (apparently) Texas Fred feel that way, but saddened. Don't ever say love the sinner hate the sin, unless you disclose that by love you mean throwing people into camps (ok - where are you proposing quarinteeing people) and letting people die cause some of y'all would rather millions die than have some tax dollars be paid to try to alleviate sickness. Now I'll let you get back to your talk about upholding Christianity.

  13. Tom, Texas Fred hosts several blog rolls for a number of bloggers and Christians Against Leftist Heresy is just one of many blogrolls that he hosts. Sorry to disappoint you but I'm not Fred.

    Having watched Huckabee on Meet the Press today and later this evening on Fox, I can only say that you have quite twisted everything that he said. And I'm not even supporting him.

  14. apologies...on that one..I'll direct my comments at Texas Fred's site (found using your website link using the title of Editor in Chief - you may wish to fix that - you may wish to add a disclaimer if the one shouldn't assume that the Editor in Chief isn't responsible for the postings on this site). Furthermore, he just posted another posting celebrating Huckabees refusal to apologize for it. He at least mentioned that Huckabee didn't mention what type of quarantine camps would be supported for HIV/AIDS sufferers.

    Huckabee said.."I don't run from it...I don't recant it". Where is the misrepresentation here? Did he not say that? Did he apologize to the Gay community? Or the HIV/AIDS community? I didn't catch that. You'll have to fill me in.

    I'll let you go back to your discussion of defending the morality of Christianity and talking about how much y'all love the sinner, hate the sin?

    Any of y'all think that Huckabee was out of line to not renounce quarantine (camps - or provide your idea of quarantine) for HIV/AIDS sufferers?

    Don't worry, I'm done with posting here.

  15. Well Tom won’t be back or I would have explained to him what a blog sidebar is and how it’s used, and I would have explained what a blogroll is and that Texas Fred is Editor in Chief of the Reject the UN blogroll – not this blog.

    Explaining anything more would have been pointless.

  16. re: "If we have eyes to see it is apparent that we are living in times where it is no longer easy to be a Christian."

    As far as I'm concerned, this sentence is blasphemy. Jesus did the hard part. Our part is EASY.

    (Oh, and I'm a leftie! Got faith?))

  17. "Jesus’ commandments concerning love did fulfill the law but they did not end the law. I think that this is where you have misunderstood. Jesus did not rescind the law. He did not do away with the Ten Commandments. Far from it! It is only by attempting to live within God’s law and by grace that one can truly understand what it really means to love. Love is not easy. It is often hard. Ask any parent who had had to discipline a child."

    you've kind of lost me here. can you explain using the example of david commitng adultry, or in the disciplining of a child.

    if your teenager said he was gay would you then withhold fellowship and say you are no longer are part of this family or you wont have the same privileges as other members of this family?

    are you saying their is a right time in disciplining to withhold fellowship from your child. having all things been put under the authority of christ do think that your relationship with christ is the same as a parent to a child.

    john 16: 12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. 15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

    john 15:14You are my friends if you do what I command. 15I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master's business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit—fruit that will last. Then the Father will give you whatever you ask in my name.

    romans 7:14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

    not being able to explain spirit of the essence of homosexuality and how it comes against the spirit of christ or loving your neighbor as yourself, how is your "the bible says" approach not putting someone under the law?